Discussion:
AREMA standards
(too old to reply)
Adam H. Kerman
2010-08-12 17:49:09 UTC
Permalink
Can one of you familiar with AREMA give us a rundown on what rolling stock
the various Plate sizes are spec'ed for?

I understand that it's both clearance of structures and weight standards
for bridges.

What's the most common for new construction? Is it Plate D? What freight
equipment and locomotives is that good for and what locomotives are too
heavy for this standard?
ai8o
2010-08-12 20:42:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Can one of you familiar with AREMA give us a rundown on what rolling stock
the various Plate sizes are spec'ed for?
I understand that it's both clearance of structures and weight standards
for bridges.
What's the most common for new construction? Is it Plate D? What freight
equipment and locomotives is that good for and what locomotives are too
heavy for this standard?
Originally, "PLATE" sizes were related to diagrams on Printed Plates
(plates= lithographic plates) in refence books that were used by AAR
to specify car shapes and sizes. I think this started as one of the
safety conventions (like mandating air brakes) around the turn of the
19th to 20th Century.

Currently, I mostly see plate C.

I am trying to find a reference to an original AAR "PLATE".
If I find a URL I will post it in a followup message.
Adam H. Kerman
2010-08-16 19:14:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by ai8o
Originally, "PLATE" sizes were related to diagrams on Printed Plates
(plates= lithographic plates) in refence books that were used by AAR
to specify car shapes and sizes. I think this started as one of the
safety conventions (like mandating air brakes) around the turn of the
19th to 20th Century.
Currently, I mostly see plate C.
Thanks.

What oversized rolling stock would Plate D accomodate?
Post by ai8o
I am trying to find a reference to an original AAR "PLATE".
If I find a URL I will post it in a followup message.
Thank you.
Greg Gritton
2010-09-16 19:22:08 UTC
Permalink
Hello ai8o,
I am trying to find a reference to an original AAR "PLATE". If I find
a URL I will post it in a followup message.
I have found copies of the AAR plates at:
- http://www.residco.com/Rail%20Charts/RailEquipment/Plate%20B.pdf
- http://www.residco.com/Rail%20Charts/RailEquipment/Plate%20B-1.pdf
- http://www.residco.com/Rail%20Charts/RailEquipment/Plate%20C.pdf
- http://www.residco.com/Rail%20Charts/RailEquipment/Plate%20C-1.pdf
- http://www.residco.com/Rail%20Charts/RailEquipment/Plate%20D.pdf
- http://www.residco.com/Rail%20Charts/RailEquipment/Plate%20E.pdf
- http://www.residco.com/Rail%20Charts/RailEquipment/Plate%20F.pdf
- http://www.residco.com/Rail%20Charts/RailEquipment/Plate%20H.pdf
- http://www.residco.com/Rail%20Charts/RailEquipment/Plate%20H-1.pdf

I also put together a diagram of how the plates fit together and how they
match the AAR recommended clearance for place H and Californai's clearance
requirements. (California's requirements are similar to other states.)
They also show various platforms (low and high from the US, plus other possibilites
from Europe.)
See:
- Loading Image...
- http://www.gritton.org/greg/rail/docs/clearance/AAR_plates.svg

(They are the same diagram in 2 different formats.)

Greg Gritton
Adam H. Kerman
2010-09-17 20:04:03 UTC
Permalink
I also put together a diagram of how the plates fit together . . .
Thank you! This sounds like what I was looking for. I'll get to it later.
m***@att.net
2010-09-17 20:58:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Greg Gritton
I also put together a diagram of how the plates fit together and how
they match the AAR recommended clearance for place H and Californai's
clearance requirements. [...]
- http://www.gritton.org/greg/rail/docs/clearance/AAR_plates.gif
That's a good drawing, and it looks like it took a little work!

Matt Roberds
Greg Gritton
2010-09-23 05:05:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@att.net
Post by Greg Gritton
I also put together a diagram of how the plates fit together and how
they match the AAR recommended clearance for place H and Californai's
clearance requirements. [...]
- http://www.gritton.org/greg/rail/docs/clearance/AAR_plates.gif
That's a good drawing, and it looks like it took a little work!
Matt Roberds
Looking at the web site, I realised that I had missed one of the platform
offsets.
(I.E. there is an "F" indication for the platform offset but no key.)

I updated the AAR plates documents:
- http://www.gritton.org/greg/rail/docs/clearance/AAR_plates.gif
- http://www.gritton.org/greg/rail/docs/clearance/AAR_plates.svg

(They are the same diagram in 2 different formats.)

I also have diagrams comparing the AAR clearances to UIC (European) clearances:
- Loading Image...
- http://www.gritton.org/greg/rail/docs/clearance/AAR_plates_with_UIC.svg

Finally, I have a more detailed drawing of the various possible platforms
to the AAR vehicle gauges:
- Loading Image...
- http://www.gritton.org/greg/rail/docs/clearance/PlatformClearance.svg

The platforms, from the bottom up, are:
1. Standard US low platform (18" high)
2. Possible platform for 17" height.
3. Possible platform for 18" height
4. European 550mm standard platform.
5. European 760mm standard platform.
6. US standard high platform.

My favorite for platform US usage would be the 17"-18" (432-457mm) high platforms.
They would provide almost level boarding with many US trains, including
Amtrak superliners and the California Cars. The 17" height is 1" below
floor level, allowing an inexpensive short ramp for handicapped access, while
the 18" is about floor level, allowing short filler swing up/out steps.
European trains with a 550mm-600mm floor height could also run with on this
platform single 3-4.5" step up, that could also be bridged for handicapped
access with a 2-3' ramp extending from the train.

Greg
Stephen Sprunk
2010-09-23 15:11:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Greg Gritton
Looking at the web site, I realised that I had missed one of the
platform offsets.
(I.E. there is an "F" indication for the platform offset but no key.)
- http://www.gritton.org/greg/rail/docs/clearance/AAR_plates.gif
- http://www.gritton.org/greg/rail/docs/clearance/AAR_plates.svg
(They are the same diagram in 2 different formats.)
That diagram is absolutely amazing for the amount of information it
conveys without, except for the lower left corner, being confusing at all.

It appears to be missing plates D and K, though.
Post by Greg Gritton
- http://www.gritton.org/greg/rail/docs/clearance/AAR_plates_with_UIC.gif
- http://www.gritton.org/greg/rail/docs/clearance/AAR_plates_with_UIC.svg
I think this one, however, has reached the saturation point; there are
simply too many lines--all the same color--in too tight a space.
Post by Greg Gritton
Finally, I have a more detailed drawing of the various possible platforms
- http://www.gritton.org/greg/rail/docs/clearance/PlatformClearance.gif
- http://www.gritton.org/greg/rail/docs/clearance/PlatformClearance.svg
I assume leaving out rail-level platforms (common in many parts of the
US) was intentional?
Post by Greg Gritton
1. Standard US low platform (18" high)
ITYM 8in.

You're also missing European 380mm standard platforms.
Post by Greg Gritton
2. Possible platform for 17" height.
3. Possible platform for 18" height
4. European 550mm standard platform.
5. European 760mm standard platform.
6. US standard high platform.
You have this listed as 4ft, but AFAIK it's 51in (4ft3in).
Post by Greg Gritton
My favorite for platform US usage would be the 17"-18" (432-457mm) high
platforms. They would provide almost level boarding with many US trains,
including Amtrak superliners and the California Cars.
If we assume no improvement in rolling stock, this is probably
sufficient. However, COTS (non-FRA) equipment has 550mm floors, and
432/457mm platforms offer no freight clearance benefit over 550mm
platforms. Wouldn't it be better to move to an international standard,
in case the FRA ever wakes up?

Modifying the existing fleet with 17in floors for such platforms
wouldn't be a trivial undertaking, it'd be a lot easier than trying to
modify 550mm equipment for use with 17in platforms--and the former would
be a one-time cost, while the latter would haunt us forever.
Post by Greg Gritton
The 17" height is 1" below floor level, allowing an inexpensive short
ramp for handicapped access, while the 18" is about floor level,
allowing short filler swing up/out steps.
That'd be an improvement over the situation today, yes.
Post by Greg Gritton
European trains with a 550mm-600mm floor height could also run with on
this platform single 3-4.5" step up, that could also be bridged for
handicapped access with a 2-3' ramp extending from the train.
So every train would require a conductor to put down bridge plates or
operate a lift?

This is a large enough step that many people, not just those in
wheelchairs, would require assistance. And even able-bodied people
would take longer to (de)board, increasing dwell times.

S
--
Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
K5SSS dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking
Glen Labah
2010-09-26 06:14:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Greg Gritton
Hello ai8o,
I am trying to find a reference to an original AAR "PLATE". If I find
a URL I will post it in a followup message.
- http://www.residco.com/Rail%20Charts/RailEquipment/Plate%20B.pdf
- http://www.residco.com/Rail%20Charts/RailEquipment/Plate%20B-1.pdf
- http://www.residco.com/Rail%20Charts/RailEquipment/Plate%20C.pdf
- http://www.residco.com/Rail%20Charts/RailEquipment/Plate%20C-1.pdf
- http://www.residco.com/Rail%20Charts/RailEquipment/Plate%20D.pdf
- http://www.residco.com/Rail%20Charts/RailEquipment/Plate%20E.pdf
- http://www.residco.com/Rail%20Charts/RailEquipment/Plate%20F.pdf
- http://www.residco.com/Rail%20Charts/RailEquipment/Plate%20H.pdf
- http://www.residco.com/Rail%20Charts/RailEquipment/Plate%20H-1.pdf
I notice that Plate A isn't listed. It's not exactly an AAR plate, but
it does exist. Search for "Amtrak Plate A" instead of AAR plate A.

Plate A is the most restrictive plate, but the only place that it
matters is on the NEC, mostly around New York. It has to do with the
assortment of third rail electrifications plus very tight tunnel
clearances with overhead wire in places.

I don't think AAR has plate A in their requirements because the
particular lines that require equipment to meet it are usually passenger
only. However, Amtrak equipment and privately owned cars used on Amtrak
NEC trains must meet it, as well as FRA and subcontractor track
inspection cars, etc.
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