train to Yellowstone National Park? (car rental in Shelby MT)

[LJB]

Yeah, I know Amtrak doesn't go anywhere near the park, but then, neither do
the airlines. (The closest airport with scheduled service is Bozeman,
MT. -- Oh, yes, and Jackson, WY, but I'm planning a winter trip, and West
Yellowstone seems to be the jumping-off point for the snowcoaches, Park
roads are closed to cars in the winter.)

My alternatives (from Baltimore/Washington) seem to be a 6-9 hour flight to
Bozeman (depending on the connections) and a 2 1/2 hour drive to West
Yellowstone, or a 4 hour flight to Salt Lake City (Possible to go non-stop
on Southwest Airlines) and a 6 1/2 hour drive to West Yellowstone.

To do this by train seems to involve either taking the California Zephyr to
Grand Junction (10 hour drive) or Provo (8 hour drive) (arrival and
departure times in Salt Lake City are at rediculously inconvenient hours,
and the travel time of the train between Provo and Salt Lake City is so
slow, I think they hitch the cars up to horses and pull them that way.), or
take the Empire builder to Shelby, MT. (6 hour drive). If I share a
Superliner standard bedroom, the cost is more or less price competitve with
the flights to Bozeman. (though not Salt Lake City if the Southwest Airline
promotional fare is available.)

Shelby, MT would be the most convenient, decent mid-day arrival and
departure times, and a straight shot down I-15 to the south, the only
problem is that there doesn't seem to be a car rental agency in the town.
Is that true, or am I just not looking hard enough? The ride on the
California Zephyr would be more scenic than the Empire builder between
Chicago and Shelby. Provo would be a good jumping off stop, but again, I'm
not sure if there are convenient car rentals.

Any suggesstions? I'll probably end up flying to Salt Lake city, but it
might be nice to consider the alternative of taking the train.

[Keith Willshaw]

Post by LJB
Shelby, MT would be the most convenient, decent mid-day arrival and
departure times, and a straight shot down I-15 to the south, the only
problem is that there doesn't seem to be a car rental agency in the town.
Is that true, or am I just not looking hard enough? The ride on the
California Zephyr would be more scenic than the Empire builder between
Chicago and Shelby. Provo would be a good jumping off stop, but again, I'm
not sure if there are convenient car rentals.

Renting a car in Provo shouldnt be problem, its a pretty sizable city.

Post by LJB
Any suggesstions? I'll probably end up flying to Salt Lake city, but it
might be nice to consider the alternative of taking the train.

Shelby is a pretty small place with no car rental agencies
I recall. Havre MT which also has an Amtrak Station has a
budget car rental office though.

Alternatively the Amtrak timetable shows a bus service
to Great Falls operated by Rimrock Trailways

I'd check this out very carefully though, Amtrak hasnt got the
greatest reputation on earth for time keeping and I doubt its
a frequent service.

Keith

[Railroadman]

On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 17:23:17 +0100, "Keith Willshaw"

Post by Keith Willshaw

Post by LJB
Shelby, MT would be the most convenient, decent mid-day arrival and
departure times, and a straight shot down I-15 to the south, the only
problem is that there doesn't seem to be a car rental agency in the town.
Is that true, or am I just not looking hard enough? The ride on the
California Zephyr would be more scenic than the Empire builder between
Chicago and Shelby. Provo would be a good jumping off stop, but again,

I'm

Post by LJB
not sure if there are convenient car rentals.

Renting a car in Provo shouldnt be problem, its a pretty sizable city.

Post by LJB
Any suggesstions? I'll probably end up flying to Salt Lake city, but it
might be nice to consider the alternative of taking the train.

Shelby is a pretty small place with no car rental agencies
I recall. Havre MT which also has an Amtrak Station has a
budget car rental office though.
Alternatively the Amtrak timetable shows a bus service
to Great Falls operated by Rimrock Trailways
I'd check this out very carefully though, Amtrak hasnt got the
greatest reputation on earth for time keeping and I doubt its
a frequent service.
Keith

---------------------------------------------
The wife and I are planning on taking a similar trip in the near
future. If Amtrak survives George the train basher, we will probably
fly from Jacksonville, FL to Denver and ride Amtrak to Salt Lake City,
where I am sure there is no problem renting cars although one might
have to take a cab to the airport, which is pretty close to downtown.
Another alternative we are looking at, probably a lot pricier is to
somehow get to Sand Point, ID, and take the tour train from there to
Livingston, or wherever it terminates and then take their bus charter
to Yellowstone. Probably need to take out a second mortgage to do
it, but-------

Railroadman

[RJ]

Post by Railroadman
we will probably
fly from Jacksonville, FL to Denver and ride Amtrak to Salt Lake City,

Serious question: why not just fly to SLC?

[Railroadman]

Post by RJ

Post by Railroadman
we will probably
fly from Jacksonville, FL to Denver and ride Amtrak to Salt Lake City,

Serious question: why not just fly to SLC?

And miss all of that nice railroad mileage through the Rockies -- no
way Jose'. Besides flying to me is something I endure, not something
I like or do by choice, i.e. unless I am the pilot (once flew a C-172
and about 100 hours in a Mooney M20G).

Railroadman

[RJ]

Post by Railroadman

Post by RJ

Post by Railroadman
we will probably
fly from Jacksonville, FL to Denver and ride Amtrak to Salt Lake City,

Serious question: why not just fly to SLC?

And miss all of that nice railroad mileage through the Rockies -- no
way Jose'.

Fair enough.

Post by Railroadman
Besides flying to me is something I endure, not something
I like or do by choice,

The incremental time between a FL-Denver and FL-SLC flight can't be
much, assuming the same number of connections.

[Railroadman]

Post by RJ

Post by Railroadman

Post by RJ

Post by Railroadman
we will probably
fly from Jacksonville, FL to Denver and ride Amtrak to Salt Lake City,

Serious question: why not just fly to SLC?

And miss all of that nice railroad mileage through the Rockies -- no
way Jose'.

Fair enough.

Post by Railroadman
Besides flying to me is something I endure, not something
I like or do by choice,

The incremental time between a FL-Denver and FL-SLC flight can't be
much, assuming the same number of connections.

Probably not, but I just like to ride the train. If I could get good
connections by rail, I would do it all the way, which is why my
personal lobbying is for a direct Florida to Chicago route.

Railroadman

[Zed]

<snip>

Post by Railroadman
Probably not, but I just like to ride the train. If I could get good
connections by rail, I would do it all the way, which is why my
personal lobbying is for a direct Florida to Chicago route.

Please tell me that your route would go through Nashville TN......

Z
(*LOVE* to be able to get a rail trip to Nashville instead of the 17 hour
drive)

[Railroadman]

Post by Zed
<snip>

Post by Railroadman
Probably not, but I just like to ride the train. If I could get good
connections by rail, I would do it all the way, which is why my
personal lobbying is for a direct Florida to Chicago route.

Please tell me that your route would go through Nashville TN......
Z
(*LOVE* to be able to get a rail trip to Nashville instead of the 17 hour
drive)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Being originally from Nashville, (Vandy, 1960), I should hope so. It
doesn't take me 17 hours though from Jacksonville to Nashville, I
usually figure about a 11.5-12 hour drive. I stopped going through
Atlanta, it is quicker to go through Montgomery and take 231, I
believe it is from there to I-10 at Marianna, FL. My preferred route
would be anything that would avoid using NS. I would push for
Jax-Waycross-Manchester-Atlanta-Chatt-Nashville-Evansville-Chic.
myself. But as long as Bush the train killer is in the WH, it's not
going to happen anyway.

Railroadman

[m.w.logsdon]

A couple things to be aware of:

All but the NORTH enterance (Gardiner, Montana) close Nov.3, so a drive from
Salt Lake would mean you'll have to drive "around" the park to get in.
Rental cars in many of the smaller locations, and most in Montana and
Wyoming, don't offer unlimited miles. Check closely! A car you get in
Denver with unlimited may only come with 100mi/day if rented in wyoming.
If renting in Salt Lake, you may not have to get to the airport. Some of
the rental companies have downtown locations. Or try Enterprise and see if
they'll deliver to you at the train station!
And if you do rent at the airport, be sure to tell them that you didn't come
in on a plane! There is often a surcharge (10%-20%) for airport rentals,
but I beleive it is waived if you didn't arrive by air.

Mark

Post by Railroadman
On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 17:23:17 +0100, "Keith Willshaw"

Post by Keith Willshaw

Post by LJB
Shelby, MT would be the most convenient, decent mid-day arrival and
departure times, and a straight shot down I-15 to the south, the only
problem is that there doesn't seem to be a car rental agency in the town.
Is that true, or am I just not looking hard enough? The ride on the
California Zephyr would be more scenic than the Empire builder between
Chicago and Shelby. Provo would be a good jumping off stop, but again,

I'm

Post by LJB
not sure if there are convenient car rentals.

Renting a car in Provo shouldnt be problem, its a pretty sizable city.

Post by LJB
Any suggesstions? I'll probably end up flying to Salt Lake city, but it
might be nice to consider the alternative of taking the train.

Shelby is a pretty small place with no car rental agencies
I recall. Havre MT which also has an Amtrak Station has a
budget car rental office though.
Alternatively the Amtrak timetable shows a bus service
to Great Falls operated by Rimrock Trailways
I'd check this out very carefully though, Amtrak hasnt got the
greatest reputation on earth for time keeping and I doubt its
a frequent service.
Keith

---------------------------------------------
The wife and I are planning on taking a similar trip in the near
future. If Amtrak survives George the train basher, we will probably
fly from Jacksonville, FL to Denver and ride Amtrak to Salt Lake City,
where I am sure there is no problem renting cars although one might
have to take a cab to the airport, which is pretty close to downtown.
Another alternative we are looking at, probably a lot pricier is to
somehow get to Sand Point, ID, and take the tour train from there to
Livingston, or wherever it terminates and then take their bus charter
to Yellowstone. Probably need to take out a second mortgage to do
it, but-------
Railroadman

[ChrisJ9876]

Date: 10/17/2003 11:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Yeah, I know Amtrak doesn't go anywhere near the park, but then, neither do
the airlines. (The closest airport with scheduled service is Bozeman,
MT. -- Oh, yes, and Jackson, WY, but I'm planning a winter trip, and West
Yellowstone seems to be the jumping-off point for the snowcoaches, Park
roads are closed to cars in the winter.)
My alternatives (from Baltimore/Washington) seem to be a 6-9 hour flight to
Bozeman (depending on the connections) and a 2 1/2 hour drive to West
Yellowstone, or a 4 hour flight to Salt Lake City (Possible to go non-stop
on Southwest Airlines) and a 6 1/2 hour drive to West Yellowstone.
To do this by train seems to involve either taking the California Zephyr to
Grand Junction (10 hour drive) or Provo (8 hour drive) (arrival and
departure times in Salt Lake City are at rediculously inconvenient hours,
and the travel time of the train between Provo and Salt Lake City is so
slow, I think they hitch the cars up to horses and pull them that way.), or
take the Empire builder to Shelby, MT. (6 hour drive). If I share a
Superliner standard bedroom, the cost is more or less price competitve with
the flights to Bozeman. (though not Salt Lake City if the Southwest Airline
promotional fare is available.)
Shelby, MT would be the most convenient, decent mid-day arrival and
departure times, and a straight shot down I-15 to the south, the only
problem is that there doesn't seem to be a car rental agency in the town.
Is that true, or am I just not looking hard enough? The ride on the
California Zephyr would be more scenic than the Empire builder between
Chicago and Shelby. Provo would be a good jumping off stop, but again, I'm
not sure if there are convenient car rentals.
Any suggesstions? I'll probably end up flying to Salt Lake city, but it
might be nice to consider the alternative of taking the train.

My choice would be take the Zephyr to Salt Lake City, without a doubt. The
scenery throught the Rockies is fabulous; in my opinion would make up for the
inconvenient hours at SLC. Just plan to do an overnight there.

[Graham Harrison]

If you do drive the only road that is supposed to be kept open year round in
the park is the one across the top from Gardiner via Mammoth Hot Springs to
Tower and then out to Cooke City (but no further).

--
*****
*****The "return to" address embedded in this mail is wrong as an antispam
measure. Please address new mails or replies to
edward<dot>harrison1<at>btinternet<dot>com replacing <dot> with a . and <at>
with an @*****
*****

[Joe Versaggi]

I haven't been to Yellowstone since 1986 (via Shelby) and 1979 (via SLC)
because it has become so hard to get to. I would take Amtrak to Shelby,
MT, Rimrock Trailways and Greyhound the next day to Great Falls and
Bozeman or Livingston, and a scheduled Yellowtsone Park bus from there.
Rimrock (used to be Intermountain Bus lines) hubs everything at Great
Falls, and used to have a route to Havre, but no more.

The Empire Builder tends to be on time, being run by a competent
railroad, the CP and BNSF. The Cal Zephyr is run by dysfunctional Union
Pacific west of Denver and is always late.

I am going via Shelby this summer for Rimrock and Greyhound Canada to
Calgary. The Shelby station is the train & bus terminal as well as the
Chamber of Commerce or Visitor Center.

Post by LJB
Yeah, I know Amtrak doesn't go anywhere near the park, but then, neither do
the airlines. (The closest airport with scheduled service is Bozeman,
MT. -- Oh, yes, and Jackson, WY, but I'm planning a winter trip, and West
Yellowstone seems to be the jumping-off point for the snowcoaches, Park
roads are closed to cars in the winter.)
My alternatives (from Baltimore/Washington) seem to be a 6-9 hour flight to
Bozeman (depending on the connections) and a 2 1/2 hour drive to West
Yellowstone, or a 4 hour flight to Salt Lake City (Possible to go non-stop
on Southwest Airlines) and a 6 1/2 hour drive to West Yellowstone.
To do this by train seems to involve either taking the California Zephyr to
Grand Junction (10 hour drive) or Provo (8 hour drive) (arrival and
departure times in Salt Lake City are at rediculously inconvenient hours,
and the travel time of the train between Provo and Salt Lake City is so
slow, I think they hitch the cars up to horses and pull them that way.), or
take the Empire builder to Shelby, MT. (6 hour drive). If I share a
Superliner standard bedroom, the cost is more or less price competitve with
the flights to Bozeman. (though not Salt Lake City if the Southwest Airline
promotional fare is available.)
Shelby, MT would be the most convenient, decent mid-day arrival and
departure times, and a straight shot down I-15 to the south, the only
problem is that there doesn't seem to be a car rental agency in the town.
Is that true, or am I just not looking hard enough? The ride on the
California Zephyr would be more scenic than the Empire builder between
Chicago and Shelby. Provo would be a good jumping off stop, but again, I'm
not sure if there are convenient car rentals.
Any suggesstions? I'll probably end up flying to Salt Lake city, but it
might be nice to consider the alternative of taking the train.

[Silas Warner]

Post by LJB
Any suggesstions? I'll probably end up flying to Salt Lake city, but it
might be nice to consider the alternative of taking the train.

If you can afford it (total tour package including hotels is abour $2000 per
couple) Montana Rail Tours offers train tours from Spokane to Livingston
with Yellowstone tours about every week during the summer and fall. See

http://montanarailtours.com

(Note: this kind of service is what Our Heroic President intends to
replace Amtrak with, outside the NEC. You Pee approves. Do you?)

[Railroadman]

Post by Silas Warner

Post by LJB
Any suggesstions? I'll probably end up flying to Salt Lake city, but it
might be nice to consider the alternative of taking the train.

If you can afford it (total tour package including hotels is abour $2000 per
couple) Montana Rail Tours offers train tours from Spokane to Livingston
with Yellowstone tours about every week during the summer and fall. See
http://montanarailtours.com
(Note: this kind of service is what Our Heroic President intends to
replace Amtrak with, outside the NEC. You Pee approves. Do you?)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No I don't approve, and my vote in next years election will prove that
unless Gore runs again, or Hillary. However, that Montana Rail Tour
is still the best thing going as far as riding the old NP, and
including a tour into yellowstone. I would expect it is more like
$2000 per person though. $2000 per couple is awful cheap, although I
don't think it is anywhere near as $$ as the AOE.
These trains have their place, and if you can afford it, they are very
neat - but they are not, nor are they intended to me, transportation
for the masses. Amtrak has two vastly different price structures. If
you are willing to go coach (which I am not), it is rather cheap if
you can stand to fast for a few days. Sleeper is about double coach,
even triple if just one person, but includes many amenities.

Railroadman

[Kennedy (no longer not on The Haggis!)]

Post by Railroadman
Amtrak has two vastly different price structures. If
you are willing to go coach (which I am not), it is rather cheap if
you can stand to fast for a few days. Sleeper is about double coach,
even triple if just one person, but includes many amenities.
Railroadman

The standard room is a better value, supposedly. One of the passengers on
the trip I took back in July said two standard rooms was cheaper than one
deluxe room... It's even better if you can really plan ahead....

:D

Kennedy

[Railroadman]

On 20 Oct 2003 23:37:17 GMT, Kennedy (no longer not on The Haggis!)

Post by Kennedy (no longer not on The Haggis!)

Post by Railroadman
Amtrak has two vastly different price structures. If
you are willing to go coach (which I am not), it is rather cheap if
you can stand to fast for a few days. Sleeper is about double coach,
even triple if just one person, but includes many amenities.
Railroadman

The standard room is a better value, supposedly. One of the passengers on
the trip I took back in July said two standard rooms was cheaper than one
deluxe room... It's even better if you can really plan ahead....
:D
Kennedy
--
-------------------- http://NewsReader.Com/ --------------------
Usenet Newsgroup Service New Rate! $9.95/Month 50GB

Planning ahead is the real key. The usual price of economy room for
two from Jacksonville to Houston RT is around $975. Last year, I did
the trip alone and it was $750, the only difference being my wife's
base fare.
This year, by purchasing the ticket in Feb., and leaving by August 28,
the RT was $475 for the two of us, total, so yes, planning ahead may
save a bunch. I qualify for Senior Citizen rate, 15% off, but that is
only on the coach portion, and the wife (and I) have NARP membership,
so through that (she is way short of senior yet) she gets 10%, but the
special beat all of that by a mile.
As a retired railroad employee, some folks think I get a discount, or
even a pass, but Southern did not opt into Amtrak in 1971, so I don't
qualify, even though most of my career was with CSX. Even if I did
qualifty it is only for a 50% discount on the coach portion - and then
it is stand-by only, so for all practical purposes you cannot get
sleeper, even if you can pay for it on a employee discount.

Railroadman

[Rshedd]

<< I'm planning a winter trip >>

Forgive me if these warnings are unnecessary, but:

(1) If you choose to take the Zaphyr, make allowance for it to run late. It
often does, sometimes by hours. Departure from Chi or Oakland is on time, but
the train can fall way behind schedule going though Colorado.

(2) Be prepared for very cold weather when you get to Yellowstone. I was
there once at Thanksgiving when it got down to 35 degrees below zero at night
and took most of the next day to get significantly warmer. At such
temperatures it's hard to spend much time outside.

The parking meters in West Yelowstone Montana have electrical outlets attached
their posts for a reason. In extreme cold your car WILL NOT START unless you
have an electric engine heater and plug it in. It's best to buy a suitable
heater and extension cord in a decent-size town like Provo, rather than looking
for them in West Yellowstone at the last minute.

(It was cold enough to crack the radiator in my car, but that was my fault for
not having enough anti-freeze in the mix.)

In December and January. the average high temperature for West Yellowstone is
+25F, and the average low is +1F. However it sometimes gets much colder than
average.

The recrod low in Jackson Wyoming is -46F. For West Yellowstone it's -60F, but
that was way back in the 1930s.





Bob Shedd
Denver, Colorado

[Steven M. Scharf]

Post by LJB
Yeah, I know Amtrak doesn't go anywhere near the park, but then, neither do
the airlines. (The closest airport with scheduled service is Bozeman,
MT. -- Oh, yes, and Jackson, WY, but I'm planning a winter trip, and West
Yellowstone seems to be the jumping-off point for the snowcoaches, Park
roads are closed to cars in the winter.)

"http://www.nps.gov/yell/planvisit/todo/ranger/concessionprograms.htm"

The snow coaches also leave from Flagg Ranch near Jackson.
The easiest way is to fly to Jackson, WY from SLC. But renting
a car in SLC and driving to Flagg Ranch is also an option. It's
a longer snow coach ride from Flagg Ranch than from West
Yellowstone (I've done it from both locations). When I went
in from West Yellowstone we drove all the way from California
as it was just too complicated and too expensive to deal with
flying anyplace close.

[Beloved Leader]

Post by LJB
Yeah, I know Amtrak doesn't go anywhere near the park, but then, neither do
the airlines. (The closest airport with scheduled service is Bozeman,
MT. -- Oh, yes, and Jackson, WY, but I'm planning a winter trip, and West
Yellowstone seems to be the jumping-off point for the snowcoaches, Park
roads are closed to cars in the winter.)
Any suggesstions? I'll probably end up flying to Salt Lake city, but it
might be nice to consider the alternative of taking the train.

These aren't closer, but both Billings MT and Pocatello ID have car
rental agencies. Horizon Air serves both airports; Billings has
service from other airlines as well.

I have rented a car in Pocatello and driven to Yellowstone. You can go
two ways. One is to approach Jackson from the south; the other is to
approach Teton Village WY from the west by way of the Teton (I think)
Pass. Both ways take you to Teton NP; from there you would drive north
to Yellowstone. Since another lister says that the southern entrance
to Yellowstone will be closed starting on November 3, you would need
to hurry.